Text Selma Nouri

“The first time that I had ever felt ‘othered’ was last year, when I spoke out about my stance on Palestine,” says Caroline Issa, Chief Executive and Fashion Director of Tank magazine. “Who could have imagined that a pro-humanity stance would cause so much controversy.” For English-Iranian designer Paria Farzaneh, this in no way came as a shock. The daughter of first-generation immigrants to the UK, she has, as a consequence of her identity, become hyper “in tune” with the world around her. “I know too much… I have seen too much,” she says. Over the course of their two-hour conversation, the well-known industry veterans discuss the powerful politics of fashion, their shared Iranian roots and the contemporary consequences of gatekeeping.

Listening in as Caroline and Paria discuss their experiences, I realise that, at its very core, fashion is dynamic. This is true both socially and aesthetically. For decades, the industry has dealt with problems of exclusivity and fragmentation, oftentimes based on class, income, politics or race. While both creatives are markedly aware of fashion’s dark history, they are also very mindful of its power. Through a thoughtful blend of creativity and intellect, they have managed to weave their cultural identities and heritage into a society where their beliefs have been deeply vilified. Fashion, they have proven, can be a catalyst in forging a future of hope and humanity in a world frequently overcome by division.

Originally published in Dazed MENA Issue 00 | Order Here

Selma How are you doing?

Caroline You know that saying, “How is your work-genocide balance going?” I think that’s my answer. What about you, Paria?

Paria I am in the same boat as you, Caroline.

Caroline Otherwise, I am doing fine… Paria seems to be very busy with new things. I feel very lucky to look forward to a conversation like this at a time when the world is seemingly falling apart.

Selma Totally agreed. I believe both of you are based in London. What is the city like right now? What do you love and/or hate about it?

Caroline I am an immigrant to London, and over the past 22 years, I have absolutely loved it. There is an energy that cannot be found elsewhere. Britain, as a whole, however, is becoming a lot more difficult to love… 22 years in, I do begin to wonder whether there is somewhere else that I need to be.

Paria Yeah, I totally back what Caroline has said. Energetically, I don’t think any place compares to London. It is a hub for inspiration and ideas. I believe this has a lot to do with the collective struggle. London is, by far, one of the most expensive places to be. Walking out the door practically costs 20 pounds. That, for a lot of people, is extremely inaccessible… Unfortunately, these are the moments when creativity flourishes the most. Artists will do whatever it takes to work.

Caroline Do you feel that clothing is still the right medium for you to express yourself creatively?

Paria Yeah, I guess it is because I am still making products that people desire and feel elevated in. They feel confident, and that is so important to me… With confidence, you can do anything.

Caroline That’s honestly amazing. I am always in awe of designers like you because you are truly motivated to create. These days, I get at least 20 press releases a day about new brands… It is true that the industry has become so oversaturated. I am grateful that real creatives like you still exist – artists and designers who are authentically able to express their ideas through the medium of clothing. Because, regardless of what others might think, fashion can really be a powerful force… While fashion can be frivolous and superficial, it can also be very political. Fashion is a very unique form of social and self-expression. We often fail to realise that it can be all of the above.

Paria What’s ironic is that I am currently teaching a first-year fashion course at Central Saint Martins (CSM), and I have actually experienced friction with a few students, where I have forced them to reflect on why they are pursuing fashion. I genuinely ask, “Why are you doing this? What is this aesthetic that you are trying to convey? Do you really think aesthetics are going to save the world?” Well, they are not… The students need to wake up and realise that, as artists, they have a responsibility to speak up about contemporary issues. Their work shouldn’t simply mask today’s realities.

I know it sounds like a lot, but I am really not asking them for explicit content. They need to know that our one responsibility as creative people is to start a conversation… This is the message that I am trying to get through to the students. They are not pursuing a degree at CSM to become ‘cool’ or create an aesthetic. It is important for them to truly value and understand the role that they are committing to… I feel like the industry has become so out of touch.Hopefully, by educating the next generation of artists and designers, we can transform it from the bottom up.

Caroline How have the students been reacting to this?

Paria I am honestly kind of cut-throat. I constantly ask them to explain the intentions and meaning behind their work. This, I hope, will encourage them to dig deeper – to ask themselves ‘why’ they have chosen to pursue fashion.

Caroline I think ‘why’ is the question we are all asking ourselves these days. If you are going to spend all that time, money and energy pursuing something, you might as well have a very good reason for it.

Selma Both of you are obviously very in tune with the world around you. What role do you think your gender and/or ethnic identities have played in this? Paria, you are 100% Iranian, and Caroline, I believe you are half Chinese, a quarter Lebanese and a quarter Iranian… Have you ever faced any challenges or setbacks as a consequence of your background? How do you think these experiences have shaped the way you think about the creative industry?

Paria I truly believe that people are threatened by new voices, especially when the noise is coming from individuals who do not look or sound like those in the majority group. To maintain the status quo, outdated institutions are willing to do whatever they can to marginalise or silence revolutions of honesty and truth. Like many others, the fashion industry is built on colonial constructs, favouritism, and gatekeeping. Revolutions do not fit within the game guidelines, so those in power will always find reasons to shut down radical change. If it does not benefit them, then they don’t care…That is why there has rarely ever been any meaningful change in fashion. The same people have always remained in control.

Selma You mentioned a great point, Paria. In years past, many have argued that the fashion industry can be ‘out of touch’ or exclusionary. Caroline, you have been a part of this industry for a while now. Do you believe this is still the case?

Paria Tell us, Caroline! Now is the time to spill… No more gatekeeping!

Caroline I definitely… [The connection becomes unstable, and Caroline’s voice begins to lag].

Paria Oh no, they can hear us… They knew what you were going to say, Caroline. They tried to cut you off.

Caroline [The connection slowly becomes more stable]. Oh gosh, maybe they are listening… But yes, of course. The industry is definitely old-fashioned. The very core of luxury has always been about inclusion and exclusion, but it’s funny. On the one hand, I have always found fashion to be an incredibly fast-paced industry. People are constantly experimenting and trying new things. Yet, on the other hand, as you mentioned Paria, it is still incredibly archaic. You will notice this at fashion shows for some of the top houses. From the very front row to the back, people are sectioned off by nationality. There is a section for the British, Italians, Chinese, Japanese… and so on. It’s such a weird system, like why are we still sectioning people off like that? I can’t wait for someone to be brave enough to challenge the system. There are some brands nudging the barricades… But nobody seems to be brave enough to really break the rules anymore. It’s frustrating.

Also, with regard to the previous question on identity – I am the daughter of first-generation immigrants to Canada, who really tried to homogenise my brother and me into Canadian culture…So, despite being granted the opportunity to travel and visit family from across the world, my ethnic identity never really defined who I was. Now, things are totally different. I am very proud to represent the so-called ‘axis of evil countries’. Truthfully speaking. However, the first time that I had ever really felt ‘othered’ was last year, when I spoke out about my stance on Palestine… Who could have imagined that a pro-humanity stance would cause so much controversy.

Selma Speaking of Palestine, have either of you noticed any changes in the fashion industry since October 2023?

Paria I am not sure… To be fair, in fashion, we have had quite a few people step forward and stand for the truth, especially among the younger generation. When attending protests, I am so happy to see 10 to 16-year-olds fearlessly standing on the right side of history. Although we are not old men in suits calling the shots, it is important to remember that we are directly responsible for changes in public dialogue and attitude… Creatives have the power to truly transform public opinion regarding socio-political issues, inherently obliging them to speak out against acts of injustice. Any artist or creative who thinks that they are incapable of making a change is utterly and completely mistaken.

Caroline Paria has made some really great points. Personally, I think that I have become much more aware of the racism and islamophobia in our industry. All masks are off, which, to a certain extent, is extremely helpful. As Paria mentioned, it is also amazing to see so much diversity at the protests… Palestine is no longer just an ‘Arab’ or a ‘Muslim’ issue but one that should matter to all human beings.

I do think what depresses me the most, however, is that we are not directly in charge… We do not have our hands on the nuclear button. Although the solidarity is inspiring, I wonder if there is anything more that we could do to affect meaningful change. Hmm… Sorry, that was really depressing. What’s something good or happy that we could talk about – how about that great vest Paria is wearing?

Paria I think I have something positive to bring forward, Caroline, and it is the very fact that you are able to speak out and say all those things. You have a platform to stand for truth… That, in itself, is golden. We are no longer being silenced, so we can continue shaping dialogue and, hopefully, inspiring meaningful change.

Caroline That’s a very good point, Paria. I think in the past, people have tried to silence us. However, it hasn’t quite worked. As you have said, that, in itself, should keep us positive. Through our platforms, we have the power to bring people together and express our beliefs, which is quite beautiful… I will revel in that positivity.

I truly believe that people are threatened by new voices, especially when the noise is coming from individuals who do not look or sound like those in the majority group. To maintain the status quo, outdated institutions are willing to do whatever they can to marginalise or silence revolutions of honesty and truth.
Paria Farzaneh

Selma Both of you have Iranian roots. What is your relationship with this part of your identity? In what ways has it shaped you?

Paria Caroline?

Caroline Oh gosh, well, I’m only a quarter Iranian.

PariA That changes nothing! You are still Iranian.

Caroline I mean, I did have koobideh kebab last night, so that must mean something…You know what? There is actually something Iranian that I am really obsessed with right now. My dad is half-Iranian, and he recently travelled back to Iran for the first time in about 65 years. He was born there but moved to Beirut when he was eight. It was really beautiful to see him reconnect and reclaim that part of his identity… But when he came back, he brought four pins with the evil eye and other charms meant to ward off harm. Now, I am known for wearing all of them at the same time just to protect myself. I love embracing Iranian culture in that way.

It’s really funny, though, as I have grown older, my perception of Iran has completely changed. As a Canadian with access to Western media, I was so misinformed about my own identity… I remember, the first time that I had ever visited Iran, I was terrified. I wore the hijab so tightly around my head that you could barely even see my face. But when I got there, everyone was laughing at me. All the girls my age were like, “Chill… What’s wrong with you?” It’s crazy how misinformed we are in the West. I really wish everyone could see Iran through my point of view… However, I would love to hear Paria’s take on this because she is 100% delicious.

Paria Just like a Granny Smith apple… 100% delicious. Oh gosh, what do I like about Iran… You know what, I just love how Iranians are absolutely and unapologetically themselves. They are constantly overbearing and hospitable. I mean, they would probably give you their own blood if they could… And, of course, Iranian food is the best.

Caroline Sorry, I am going to bring it back to fashion for a second. To present her Autumn 2020 collection, Paria hosted an Iranian wedding. It was so bloody good… I remember all of the Brits were in shock. For once, they were forced to immerse themselves in another culture. There is so much beauty and power in Paria’s ability to showcase her heritage in such an authentic way. I mean, she just recently collaborated with Hoka on sneakers featuring Iranian designs… They are just so subversive and good. I am obsessed.

Paria [Holds up the Paria x Hoka shoebox]

Caroline Ooh, there it is.

Paria Also, can we talk about the green and red colours on the shoebox? I had a meeting with the Hoka team yesterday and was completely honest with them. I said, “Do you guys realise what we have just done? The colours on the shoebox represent the Palestinian flag.” They were a bit shocked, but I thanked them for granting me the freedom and the opportunity to create something like that. If not now, then when?

Selma To end our conversation, I am going to introduce a segment of rapid-fire questions…we are calling this segment “Latif ow Sakheef.” This is our Arabic take on “hot or not” questions, “Latif” equates to “hot” while “Sakheef” refers to the opposite, “corny” or “cringy.” I will say a word, and you can respond with either “Latif” or “Sakheef.”

Lateef or Sakheef

Y2K

Caroline No, not into that.

Paria Nope. No explanation is necessary.

TikTok

Caroline Totally hot.

Paria TikTok is hot, but it’s scary hot. It requires an asterisk.

Balletcore

Caroline Been there, done that. Not hot.

Paria Nope. Not hot.

Capris

Caroline Hmm. It depends on who makes them.

Paria It depends on the weather. It’s cold out!

Protesting at Fashion Shows

Caroline I wouldn’t necessarily call it hot, but I would never say “not,” either. It should happen.

Paria [raises her thumbs up].

Grungecore

Paria I find it so weird that things are called “cores” now when, at one point, this was a lifestyle for some. This is where I think Gen-Z has got it all wrong…They love to put labels on things like cottagecore, gorpcore, etc. These are lifestyles, not cores! Maybe let’s switch the question to, “What do you think about cores?” I think we need to eliminate them completely! I don’t want to hear the word “core” again, but grunge…I love grunge! I am a really big Kurt Cobain fan, so yes, to grunge.

Caroline Yeah, I have nothing to add to that.

“Clean Girl” Aesthetic

Paria Oh no…Now, having basic hygiene is an aesthetic?! Oh my gosh, I can’t deal with this [gets up from her seat in frustration]. Guys, I am at a loss here. I would hope that there are clean girls in this world!

Caroline I am with Paria. Just bathe.

Originally published in Dazed MENA Issue 00 | Order Here

Production CORDELIA SAVILLE-SMITH